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Kurt Johnson wears many hats–a distinguished evolutionary biologist, a leader of the Interspiritual Movement, an authority on the scientific career of the novelist Vladimir Nabokov, and most recently co-author of the anthology Our Moment of Choice: Evolutionary Visions and Hope for the Future. It was Kurt who introduced me to the Interspiritual Movement and who I invited to join me on my visit to converse with H.H. Dalai Lama last year. In this podcast, we discuss what my new novel, Atlas Hugged, adds to transformative change efforts in the real world.